101 replies to this topic

[Mamabear]

Is that shock at the price, or shock that they are offering it?!

For me - Mrs Cautious to the point of Ridiculous - I would not consider straying too far from the resort boundaries without first having a guide to lead the way and tell me where is safe and where is not, and point out the things to look for. Being on a snowboard I would ideally love to find some awesome trails that will bring you out at the SMALLEST hike out possible, rather than have to dig a snow cave and overnight it!

I would consider the price of a GOOD GUIDE for an introduction to back country to be a 'course' price, you know...you are paying for tuition, knowledge transfer, safety guidance, local knowledge etc. But I would also expect that after one trip out I would be left with the ability to then venture out by myself (with a group) rather than have to book a guide each time.

[Go Native]

Yeah MB I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to just head out onto the Main Range in mid winter unless with someone who really knows the area or a professional guide. Pretty much all of it is above treeline and if the weather closes in, which it can do very quickly, then it can be very difficult to navigate. I've spent a lot of time up there and am pretty good at navigation and have still found myself slightly geographically challenged during a blizzard or two. There's been times in complete whiteouts where I couldn't even tell if I was going downhill or not. Had to look down at my boots to try and see if the snow was moving around to tell if I was moving or not. That can be rather disorientating and makes it difficult to follow a bearing.

[gareth_oau]

MB, you could try this crowd in jindabyne for BC tours

http://www.wildernesssports.com.au/

$149pp for a full day tour up to the top, incl. lunch in groups of 4

[Mamabear]

Good to know. They mention ski and telemark ,..gotta make sure they take boarders too - coz if I clipped into a pair of ski's I would be straight back to Friday Flat!

[blu]

For most of us Aus locals, it's just nice to take the chair up to the top. You can still ski back, out of bounds - Stanleys & Deadhorse gap (Thredbo). Eyre out of bounds, Farm Creek, Parachute trees (Perisher).
I don't think there are too many of us who have the equipment and the desire to climb 600 vertical metres for a relatively quick ski down.
Nice Snow Gum pic Gareth.

[Go Native]

Well if you're just heading out for a day trip you really don't need too much equipment. For boarders you'll need some snowshoes obviously and you'd be amazed at how many boarders head backcountry. Alpine skiers will need them as well unless you have AT bindings. The ability to read a map and follow a bearing is a must or be proficient at using GPS's (never ever used one myself). And obviously a pack with some water and food and possibly an extra jacket for when you stop for lunch.
In all the years I was skiing backcountry in Aus I don't think I ever met anyone with avalanche gear. For the most part they are very rare in Aus. And blu I think you'd be very surprised at how many people are more than willing to climb to earn their turns. As you can see from some of the pics I've posted above you can access terrain that just blows away anything available at the resorts.

[SKI]

Does look good that Go Native.
Did you used to live close-by before you came to Japan?

[Go Native]

Depends what you mean by close by. In Aus a few hours drive is considered pretty close. Unless you live in Perth then anything less than a couple of days drive is considered pretty close. Feathertop and Bogong were within about a 4-5 hour drive and then a 4-5 hour walk up. It wasn't unusual for us to drive up after uni and then start walking up the mountain in the middle of the night. The Main Range in NSW was around a 7 hour drive away. Again if the weather was ok we would normally head out through the night to wherever our campsite would be.

[SKI]

Quote:

It wasn't unusual for us to drive up after uni and then start walking up the mountain in the middle of the night.

Ah to be young again!

[ausi ski bum]

Aussie lift prices have always been high compared to elsewhere but offering skiing in Australia is also far more expensive, we have to rely on snowmaking to a much higher degree than else where and wages paid on mountain are higher than most other countries.

Australians often forget to compare the average wage to the cost of a lift ticket, yes we pay more than the US and Japan but we also on average earn more so it becomes relevant.

I ski more in Japan than I do Australia and I own two apartments in Falls Creek, this is more a choice based on the quality of skiing in Japan vs Australia but I still enjoy a great day on mountain in Australia when I get the chance.

If peeople were honnest re the cost of skiing OS vs at home then they would have to admit that the economics don't stack up if you live within 4 hours drive of an Australian resort, where they do stack up is if you live in Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia where the cost of getting to an Aussie field is similar to getting to a Japanese one.

At the end of the day Skiing has always been and always will be an expensive sport. But then again how many other activities require the infrastructure of skiing.

If your going to waste a lot of money, it might as well be skiing.

[Mamabear]

Originally Posted By: ausi ski bum

If peeople were honnest re the cost of skiing OS vs at home then they would have to admit that the economics don't stack up if you live within 4 hours drive of an Australian resort, where they do stack up is if you live in Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia where the cost of getting to an Aussie field is similar to getting to a Japanese one.

Papa and I have actually done the math on this one *naturally*, and being from Western Australia we worked out that comparing like for like (as close as you can) it hit even prices after about 10 consecutive days and from then on became cheaper. The longer the stay the 'better value per day' the trip became. I would suggest that our costs to get to an Aussie ski field are the highest, as flights from Perth are not only the most expensive in the country, but are also notoriously devoid of the competitive discounting between the low fare airlines. So for those in other states I would think two weeks would be your break even point. Of course if the exchange rate is in your favor it might be earlier, and if the AUD is tanking it could be a lot later!

Originally Posted By: ausi ski bum

If your going to waste a lot of money, it might as well be skiing.

Completely agree.
Getting out and doing what you love is such a stress release, and not to mention the side line benefits of a physical workout, and alpine fresh air! Why! It is an investment in your health and well being.

[gareth_oau]

agree MB, fortunately, I've managed to use frequent flier point for the last few years, so Perth - Canberra costs have been nil.

but in addition to the airfare, we also have to hire a car in Canberra, so thats another $1500 that the locals in sydney etc dont have to worry about

[Mamabear]

Very true Gareth.

We've never yet had Canberra-Perth flights on points but I have had them as low as $260 one way per seat. Using points for some of our Brisbane flights over Easter though!

We also hire a car - well actually for family trips we usually hire TWO cars... for a few reasons. Usually the Tarago/8 seater is booked out anyway, but I also prefer a 4WD so I don't have to chain up if it snows, and we need the extra space to get the snowboard bags for 6 into the car. So two smaller 4WDs it is!

But when we did the maths/cost comparison for our family we also added hire costs of a 9 seater van in Niseko because we usually hire one of these to get us around.

[gareth_oau]

when we head off to thredbo, we usually hire a 12 seater minibus from europcar, for 6 of us.

It costs half the rate of a large 4WD, and all the kids dont have to sit next to anyone else!

in addition there's plenty of space for 6 large bags, 5 snowboards, and we stop in at cooma and do a week's grocery shopping

[Mamabear]

What a good idea.

I always use Europcar.
I noticed my last trip they had a change of staff - I miss the rotund flamboyant fellow who would spot me coming to the counter and have my keys and documents all ready for me.

Little story:
A few years back I was heading over having booked our two cars through Hertz. Few days before I accidentally threw my mobile phone, and drivers license into the wheelie bin and it got collected by the rubbish truck - how is a long story. Once I realized I went straight to the license center and got a new one 'issued' and a paper interim license, as well as a new phone. But I was NO CHANCE of my plastic license turning up before we flew.

So I called Hertz to make sure we would be alright, or if not to change to a larger vehicle. Sorry, despite your previous business we will not accept the paper license and we have no bigger vehicles available. SHIT!

So I started to call all the other car rental places in Canberra .. NO NO NO.

Then I called Europcar. Mrs Bear - calm down - we can help you. Of course, under the circumstances the paper license will be accepted. And guess what? The cars actually cost us less!

Never used anyone else since.

[gareth_oau]

just be aware that the 12 seater minibus is popular and in short supply, specially round school holidays and uni week etc.

so i book mine over the net months in advance to guarantee supply (and typically, the earlier you book, the cheaper it gets).

Get their optional snow cover for $11/day and they throw in chains as well.

set your personal accident liability to nil, for lowest rates, and make sure your travel insurance covers it instead.

[merryJim]

That's a good story Mamabear.
I have actually had a fairly similar positive experience with them and would recommend.

[Mamabear]

Well... I did it.

They may be expensive, but they are only going to get more expensive if I buy day by day - so I bit the bullet and got the discounted early bird Platinum Passes for the family.

Previously we didn't get Platinum Passes, as we were never going to be there in summer to use the bobsled or the pool (and have never used it yet in Winter) Golf or Tennis, but with the new property and the need to go and fix it up in Summer we thought we would get the value from Platinum Passes for everyone. And by buying them before the 5th of April we got the Platinum Passes for less than just the Winter Lift Season Passes.

Now at least I don't need to think about it until Winter next year.

[MitchPee]

MB if you need another family member to help use those passes you just let me know

[JA]

Too late, Mitch, I got in well ahead of you! (Didn't I MB?)