99 replies to this topic

[Korbzy]

hey, if there is snow on a mountain and then i guess that it can always avalanche. just depends how much disturbance there is on it.

[Man_In_Japan]

Not really Korbzy - it isn't that simple as "snow on mountain, then it can avalanche".

From what I have been reading from other people on here, depends on packing, angle of slope, weather conditions and loading.

[quattro]

Rob

You forgot to add on item to the list. A trigger is also necessary.

[Man_In_Japan]

But a trigger is a given though isn't it?

[Foxpuppet]

extreme danger warning for niseko today all gates closed, we were planning on heading out today but now stick inside boundaries

[Ross_3pin]

a couple of things must be present for an avalanche.
1 snow
2 bed surface, an avalanche must have a surface to slide on.
3 slope angle of 30 and above usually does the trick
4 a trigger which can either be human or natural.

Other natural features also create problems. Convex rolls, loaded gullies or lee ward slopes, cornice areas.
Natural avalanches are usually a good sign of in-stability and in Niseko the highest danger period is usually during or right after the storm. Wind events can change this

[Go Native]

I heard this evening that there was an avalanche death today out of bounds at Rusutsu. Haven't got any detailed information but it was certainly not a great day to head out of bounds with avie danger extreme in the region.

[Mamabear]

Really?!
That is awful news!

[Ross_3pin]

Would love to know more details!

[Go Native]

They were skiing on Shiribetsu dake which is outside of the resort boundary off West Mt of Rusutsu. It was definitely not the best day to ski this mountain which is prone to avalanches.

[Foxpuppet]

How safe was the peak yesterday GN? Were a lot of people hitting it up?

[Go Native]

100's of people skiing off the peak yesterday. Seemed pretty stable out there.

[Go Native]

Just found out that the guy who died was on a guided tour with a Sapporo based company which really compounds the stupidity of being out on that mountain on that day.
Last year also a guided trip out near Nitoannupuri was hit by an avie and similar to this year they were out there during a storm when avie danger was extreme.

On both days all gates in Niseko were closed due to the avie danger.

Really got to wonder about some of these so called 'guides' and the decisions they are making to continue a trip on very high avalanche danger days.

[MitchPee]

You will see that a lot in UT. Sometimes the temptations become to great. I have been guilty of definitely treading into some questionable terrain. I am no Snowbird Ski Patrol but I know snow conditions really well and how to react in situations of danger. Yet I know that doesn't excuse me for telling my brain to quiet down and take risks that great.

With that said, sometimes it surprises me that people like that will put their lives in danger, but at the same time I understand it. I don't know the circumstances so I can't really judge.

[Mamabear]

But Mitch that is a decision you make for yourself.

For the rest of us - we lesser mortals looking to discover the back country for the first time, or with little experience. We think we are doing the right thing by booking a guided tour with an experienced guide who KNOWS what the safe things to do are, and will take adequate caution.

Scary.

[Go Native]

Yeah I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that if you have paid someone to guide you onto a slope then they have enough knowledge and experience to sometimes say sorry guys but today isn't the day to ski down there. I get the feeling that in Japan this doesn't happen too often, they feel obligated to complete a tour when the client has paid. I could be wrong on that? Anyone else know of similar situations?

[Black Mountain]

It certainly happens a lot. A hiking tour in Hokkaido ended in disaster last summer for similar reasons. Several hikers died during a storm then. I know of more than one company that have no policies for refunds because of poor conditions thus putting pressure on organizers and guides (usually unrelated to sales) to complete tours even in terrible conditions (this is related to companies that do bus tours, surf schools, and hiking guides). It's beyond scary, it's criminal negligence and should be prosecuted.

[Foxpuppet]

i am sure you guys have already seen this, but for those who are looking at this thread and wondering what all the fuss is about....sit down, read the description and watch the vid
http://vimeo.com/6581009

[Jynxx]

That is feaky. Scary. A long 4 and a half minutes.
Ends well but imagine dying like that over the time of 15min. Damn.

We never know the full extent of the dangers in a lot of activities.
Commercial operations does not mean professional standards. Remember there have been a few times (in Australia) where scuba divers were abandoned just because the skipper and the crew of the dive boat can't count.
Even under professional standards, shit happens. We don't want to become the "statistics", but people should be made aware what you are getting into. This is extreme sports and survival territory.

[Go Native]

Yeah but in Australia Jynxx those companies would end up being sued out of existence, they don't last long if they are sloppy. I don't think the same happens here in Japan.

And yes in extreme sports things can go wrong. In mountaineering for instance sometimes it matters not how much knowledge and experience you have, sometimes something huge can just fall off from higher up and wipe out a few people.
Avalanches can also just happen even when conditions appear reasonably stable. In the cases I pointed out above though avalanche danger in the region was considered extreme and you basically would have to have been crazy to head out backcountry with an experienced, well equipped group let alone take out paying customers who are relying on your judgement to keep them safe.