56 replies to this topic

[Tohoku bum]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Creek Boy:
Do you honestly think that its OK to climb Fuji, have vending machines on it, and bomb it etc but skiing or boarding it isnt?

I think climbing it is fine. I can't do anything about the vending machines, concrete, artillery practice, amusemnet parks, etc. But I can do something about the litter I see, and my own actions.

None of you seem to care about this, though, so I'll shut up.


P.S.
The Fuji "kami" is the phenomenon known as goraiko (Brocken specter, in English) that occurs in Japan almost only on the top of Fuji. Never seen it in person, but here are some pictures:

http://images.google.com/images?client=s...F-8&sa=N&tab=wi

In shinto, the kami is called Konohanasakuyahime and Buddhists consider it to be the Buddha Avalokiteshvara (Dainichi nyorai). Many new religions have their own names for the deity and have practices surrounding it.

[daver]

regarding camera phenomenon

[cal]

Tohoku bum - do you duck ropes?

[Bushpig]

Tohoku Bum, I don't mean to be a prick, good on you for your conviction. To me though, you are ignoring the fact that in Shinto and its roots, pretty much every and any mountain was considered to house a god. The size and importance of that particular god (ie. that the particular one in Mt Fuji is ALSO sacred to Japanese buddhists) is quite irrelevant in my opinion. If you are gonna hold that Mt Fuji is sacred and should not be boarded/skiied, then surely for the sake of consistency you should keep that attitude towards all the other mountains which play host to kamis, whether they be well known, currently worshipped, or otherwise. Doing so would pretty much stop you from skiing or boarding anywhere in Japan.

[db le p]

If I hiked up for 10 hours and the decided to slide down on my bum, with no hooting or expression of recreational joy on my face.... would it be ok?

What if I set up a new religion like one of the other 2000 religious organisations registered around Fuji. If my religion had the legal minimum number of members, could we all be suitably offended at people choosing to walk, slide or piss on our mountain for any other reason than a holy pilgrimage?

[oo]

Seems a very weak argument got to be said.

And interesting that all the others doing it were Japanese, not naughty gaijin.

[Tohoku bum]

Let me just ask you this (I'll even make it multiple choice) and then I'll shut up (maybe):

Why was/is Fuji even contending to become a world heritage sight?
A) Because its Japan's highest mountain
B) Because a variety of apple is named after it
C) Because of the long history and centrality it has had and continues to have in Japanese religions
D) Because it looks like a teet.

Would you make sand castles out of the Zen rock garden at Ryoanji (another world heritage sight)? Would you carve your initials into the Moai statues on Easter Island (another world heritage sight)? A twenty-something Japanese did the latter. Hmmmm, perhaps Japanese might not be the best standard for judging appropriate behavior.

Le Spud: if you slid silently down on your @ss, I would have much less problem with it, and I'd expect to see the picture of your bruises posted here afterward. Lots of ice + sharp edges = disturbingly loud scraping.

Bushy: My point wasn't that it is a sacred site because of the presence/absence of a kami, but because it continues to be used as a sacred site by hudreds of thousands of religious practictioners. I can think of about four other mountains in Japan that I wouldn't ski on for the same reason, but the rest are fair game. (btw, I am an editor of a Shinto Encyclopedia funded by the Japanese gov't--I do know a little about Shinto/its roots)

Cal: no

Daver: goraiko is simple physics, not photo aberration. Happens almost exclusively at high altitudes. Standing in a cloud or fog with your back to the sun, your own shadow is projected into the center of a spherical rainbow appearing just meters in front of you, looking like a shadowy god/goddess appearing in the middle of a ball of light. Thus, belief in Fuji's particular sacredness.

You're all going to find a way to rationalize skiing/boarding Fuji anyway, and "everyone else is doing it" seems to be winner here. So f#ck it. I thought you'd all be a bit more open-minded.

[Bushpig]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Tohoku bum:
Let me just ask you this (I'll even make it multiple choice) and then I'll shut up (maybe):

Why was/is Fuji even contending to become a world heritage sight?
A) Because its Japan's highest mountain
B) Because a variety of apple is named after it
C) Because of the long history and centrality it has had and continues to have in Japanese religions
D) Because it looks like a teet.

Bushy: My point wasn't that it is a sacred site because of the presence/absence of a kami, but because it continues to be used as a sacred site by hudreds of thousands of religious practictioners. I can think of about four other mountains in Japan that I wouldn't ski on for the same reason, but the rest are fair game. (btw, I am an editor of a Shinto Encyclopedia funded by the Japanese gov't--I do know a little about Shinto/its roots)

I am guessing your answer is C Tohoku Bum? I reckon the wording should be more like this: Because of the long history and centrality it has had and continues to have in Japanese history/culture/art/religion. Not exclusively religion.

Point taken on my comments. The thrust of your argument is that it is offensive to those actually practicing their religions who hold it sacred right? OK, fair enough. So I would be inerested to hear opinions of people who are actually offended by this, and then also hear what they think of all the other activities taking place on the mountain. Again, not trying to be a prick Tohoku bum, really just interested to hear what some of these people really think.

I like D as an answer to btw

Oh, and I wasn't trying to suggest that you don't know anything about Shinto and its roots mate. What is that encyclopaedia you are editor of? Any online links?

[db le p]

Oh well, too bad for the religious practitioners.

The only reason I don't really want to ride it is that it isn't particularly steep, it is full of man made junk obstacles and, in the season of spring-cone riding, you cant ride top-to-bottom. In late winter on a good weather day, low winds.... you could get +2500m of descent (avoiding the military bombing range). Now that kind of decent would be interesting.

[Tohoku bum]

 Quote:

Originally posted by le spud:
The only reason I don't really want to ride it is that it isn't particularly steep, it is full of man made junk obstacles and, in the season of spring-cone riding, you cant ride top-to-bottom.

That's why I couldn't understand why everyone was jumping down my throat at suggesting there were other reasons not to ride/ski it also.

Anyway, the site for the Encyclopedia of Shinto is:
http://eos.kokugakuin.ac.jp/modules/xwords/
Pretty specialized for the most part, but the 24 "special topics" at the bottom right are more general and pretty interesting.

[Bushpig]

cheers, will check it out.

[veronica]

Is there a particular part of Fuji-san that is supposed to be more special than others?

From what I have read, many people don't seem to take the best care of it when they are walking up there. It looks very nice from a distance though.

[dizzy]

went up this wkend w/ a few co-workers, mostly the same guys i go snowboarding with sometimes. we took the Fujinomiyaguchi Track up, 4 hours from Station 5 to Station 9, where we had reservations at a hut.



the weather cooperated and we were treated to a sunrise above some low-lying clouds.



coming down the switchbacks on the Kawaguchi track seemed tedious, but maybe it was the altitude and only getting 3 hours of sleep at the hut.

i was impressed that there was much less garbage than i thought there'd be on both trails. Ken Noguchi and his group just had a simulatenous Fuji/Manaslu clean up in May, so maybe that had sth to do w/ it.
the sunrise was all worth it

[Curt]

Nice pictures

[dizzy]

thx curt
oops, re-post w/ better hosting of my pics:

just below Station 9 where we stayed overnight


5:04 am sunrise over the clouds:



the sunrise WAS all worth it

[cdninkyoto]

Sweet! That has been on the list of things to do before I leave Japan. If you'd like to organize a trip I would be more than happy to pay for it!

[dizzy]

check the english magazines--if ur in kyoto, check Time Out and Flea Market. or Out door Japan. y pay? just do it yourself

do u know the mountain officially "closed" at the end of august? but u can still do it if u really want to.

third pic is a still from video. u really can see the halo from the top. 5:12 am