On the Now page, sometimes they are posting info
http://www.snowjapan.com/e/daily/shownow.php?town=Hakuba%20Now%21

From this week.

Avalanche Advisory
With the huge amounts of snow and wind this past week Avalanche Hazard is high in the alpine bowls above tree line. Bellow tree line the hazard is moderate yet caution needs to be taken in open convex terrain. Be careful in steep unsupported terrain over 30 degrees.

There are multiple slab avalanches that can be seen in the Hakuba mountains that were of a very large size (size 3 ~ size 4). Some close to 2 metres deep, 500 metres in width and 1 km in length. In other words HUGE. Small sluffs can be seen in steep terrain below tree line and there is increased chance of small slab avalanches on southern aspects with increased solar radiation and increased temperatures.

Have fun, Play safe. Always wear a beacon, carry rescue gear and know how to use it just in case. Ride one at a time with other members of your crew watching from safe areas and when possible stay out of avalanche terrain.

Who writes these things? Isn't that the first thing you want to know?

The priorities in that list of avuncular advice at the end are exactly backwards aren't they? (Not that I would know, I haven't taken a course.)

Ocean its time for you to either read a book or not talk about things you dont understand. I know you know many things but dont trash things that you know nothing about. This is written by Evergreen outdoor center. Dave Enright has been in the field this year since the first snowfall. He has tracked the snowpack and rates it as high. If you cant understand this simple avie language then really dont post BS just to post BS.

I was caught in a 30 cm sluff slide that might have something to do with this report

Sorry Fattwins, I understand exactly what he's talking about. But you can tell from the way it's written that there's an element of self-importance there (in width = wide, in length = long), and I also find it odd that anybody would trust unaccredited warnings.

And you don't think that advice is backwards?

As for your own reliability, judging from your recent posts, I wonder just how safe you are.

I just find some of the BC stuff funny that's all. And I know how much ya'll hate to be laughed at.

Surprised to see you posting here Ocean11. I thought you had renounced all winter-sports to pursue a more green existence.

The reason I had suggested a dedicated forum was to encourage others to share info about safety/avie in regards to Japan. I'm looking forward to any useful information you might have to share with us here.

the guy who wrote it is not even the guy who did the pits. he is the office staff guy. He gets footnotes and writes it in the avie still reporting. I know all these guys ocean, the guy taking alot of the temps is tellyboy. the office guy is a way cool auzzie guy who has a love for mountains and nature but his sking level is just coming around. Pit Diggers Dave Enright who is one of the coolest down to earth people I know.

In all honesty the snow pack is freaking deadly at the moment in hakuba and if they can get that across then all the better to them. Japan is up to 5 deaths at least this year I think maybe more.

Alright, ignore my question then if you can't answer it.

I haven't done the necessary course so I wouldn't know, but is that saying that it's maybe not safe to ride on steep, south facing slopes in-bounds too? Because if that's what it's saying, it should maybe say so, if you know what I'm saying.

montoya, I'm sure I have no information of use to you, but I'll feel free to ask questions here from time to time. Just to educate myself if'n I do get back into it.

If you skied 100 slopes lets say 50 of them would slide. How do you want to write that up. If you took the time to call dave he would give you an honest answer, go dont go or idont really think its that safe.

I'd actually have to agree with Fatty on this one. Ocean's, I've read only two threads about avo's on this site (one on avo courses, and then this one), and you've made ill-informed comments that denigrate both.

The danger is that others, who are new to the BC or avo awareness, may not take the good information onboard. Questions are good. Derisive comments from an uninformed position are dangerous for others.

Oh, and I forgot.... "self importance"? Sheesh! Informing others with the aim of reducing fatalities doesn't rate as 'self importance' in my book.

And there isn't anything that suggest the author was rating the advice in the last paragraph in any order of priorities. Take it for what it is: great info to have that'll help you make sesible (and hopefully) life saving decisions.

Whew! I usually don't get hot in forums, but I'll take all the avo information I can get thanks.

Here's a big thanks to anyone out there sharing info - those here, or those I meet on the hills.

New here, but,......Who IS this guy?

> If you skied 100 slopes lets say 50 of them would slide. How do you want to write that up

"You have a 50% chance of being involved in a possibly fatal slide on certain southern slopes including in-bounds"?

Or again, did I misread that?

If that's really the case, and the concern really is safety, why not say that?

> The danger is that others, who are new to the BC or avo awareness, may not take the good information onboard
Patronizing nonsense. The danger is that some people may take all this 'good' information on board, do stupid things on the hill, write posts listing their mistakes 1 through 4 (in all objectivity), then make 1 mistake too many. A more plausible danger methinks ... speaking strictly as an armchair theorist.

> New here, but,......Who IS this guy?
Someone who thinks the BC people on here (except miteyak) are funny.

the writing is standard within the industry.

Try to find something different. If you can i will pat you on the back.

I dont understand your bones to pick with this one Ocean cause it makes no sense. People are trying to help a bit, in the industry standardized way.

Fattwins, I don't want a pat on the back from you. I'd likely end up in a creek.

The bone I have to pick is that I think a lot of this is just a bit of a pose. A lot of the 'BC community discussion' is tripe. Don't give me crap about "the writing is standard within the industry". I translate specifications for a living and that is not some 'industry standard' format there (it's an attempt to be which is what makes it funny).

Besides poking a bit of fun, I've asked a few simple questions here, but nobody responds to the serious questions because you cain't. You just patronize, or hint that I should FO, but if you knew what you were talking about you could give me an answer without saying "Phone Dave Enright".

Is that Hakuba warning actually warning about dangers within resorts or not? And if it is, why isn't it clearer like some 'industry standard' warning ought to be? Do you really think something like that can form the basis of decision making? If people are really taking the time to go out there and check up on this, it seems like an awful waste of time just to write something half-arsed like that report. Posting something vague like that, and then saying "be sure you know how to use your kit now" seems more like an infomercial to me.

Ah whatever, jes tryin' t'edicate myself here's all.

Can this thread please get back on topic.

If you don't like the reports or think they are useless then, hey, just don't read them. Some people obviously do appreciate and value them.

If you want to continue arguing about this and/or laugh at each other's point of view, do it somewhere else - not here.

Thanks.

Ocean for someone who said that they wont even ride this year.... you really wanna cut people down who are trying to help or to change things in a positive way. i you and say well done and well thought out great fight you know so much more than us. Before you comment at least ride once

Ha ha, that's funny. What is the topic?

SJ, if there isn't an avalanche advisory for a place, does that mean there aren't going to be any avalanches there? Gosh, others, who are new to the BC or avo awareness might think that.

Like I said in the post above...

>>> If you want to continue arguing about this and/or laugh at each other's point of view, do it somewhere else - not here.

is there a reason why a cancer like O11 is still allowed to post here? just a simple answer will suffice.

The post above might be seen as a warning. We do not want this to continue, as you might gather

Fattwins, you know just enough to gab about it a lot. Whether I ride or not has got nothing to do with it, as you well know.

I think they're informercials and nothing more, but hey, if you want to base your decisions on them go right ahead. :that waving smiley:

I hate to even bring myself to reply to the fool, but.... informercials for what exactly???

cancer ... warning ... fool very polite. SJ moderation hitting a new low here.

Infomercials for Hakuba BC courses.

Well I never thought it would turn out like this. Can't you just give it a rest?

Ocean11, what do you get out of this? Do you just get kicks out of doing all you can to cause a fuss out of nothing or what?

If I cared I would truly feel sorry for you.

I think you should shut down the site completely.

It is obviously an informercial for winter sports in Japan, and that is just not acceptable. It's OTT blatant. And it should stop, NOW!

The report states that danger is high above the tree line. In the Hakuba valley, only the very top part of Happo resort is above the tree line. The top course there is not steep, faces east and is on a ridge (the "one" of Happo-one). For those of you interested, the men's downhill in the 1998 Olympics started halfway up this top course. The wooden starting gate lower down was for the womens race.

Everything else at the other resorts in the valley is below the tree line.

The only resort I can think of with a steepish south facing course would be Cortina. Off the ridge to skiers left down to the main course. Cortina's main steeps face north. Happo's steeps face east. 47 and Goryu's face east/north east. Tsugaike has no steep courses. Iwatake's short steeps face east and appear to be closed. If you leave the courses, every resort has south-facing steeps.

Last week, a long crown fracture, i.e., the wall of snow left where the snow cracks during a slab avalanche, could be seen on Norikuradake above and behind Tsugaike. I saw it from Iwatake, 10km away. As the report says, that's going to be huge.

On the whole, I wouldn't be so concerned about infomercials for avalanche courses because there is no real money in them. Just as there is no money in guiding if you don't take people to the biggest lines on the one day of the season they can go there. Safety-first doesn't pay.

Thanks Mr Wiggles.

The Bc courses are all finished Ocean done 1 week ago, for a know it all you base your judgements many times on no facts but those that you make up.

Yes, why isn't Ocean11 banned?

If this continues any more, we WILL take the sad step of banning people from using the forums. Feel free to try and come back to this with sarcastic comments if you wish to 'test us'.

Hes a closet wannabe BC skier

I think we've all made our points. Let's just let it rest and let this new avo section get back on track, survive, and thrive. I don't think any of us (wherever you stand in this - and I'm not excluding myself) is achieving anything by dragging it on.

I'm voting with the moderator. Give the section a chance by letting it all rest.

I'm more than happy with the backcountry conditions notices available on this site. Concerning Hakuba in particular they make perfect sense to me because I'm familiar with the areas being talked about. I can also understand most of the terminology and descriptions used. They're what you'll read in texts and what you talk about with other skiers/boarders.

Great clarification posted there MrWiggles. I would take any advisory indicating a high degree of danger on South facing steep slopes above the treeline as a caution for similar areas anywhere below the treeline, onpiste or not. On piste is generally controlled by the resort and they may close areas for this reason. There are plenty of off piste danger areas as desribed in the advisory accessible by skiing right off the lifts eg Tsugaike South faces or the Goryu gondela area. Right now I wouldn't go anywhere like that, I'd stick to tree-lined slopes more-or-less.

Doing a certified avalance awareness course didn't make me an expert, a pointy-headed know it all, or the member of some exclusive club of high-noters. It did however make me think twice about the safety of what I was doing. It was a bargain,and one of these days I'll do the same two days again as the refresher componant of a five day advanced course. I doubt the courses ever make a huge amount of money, but if they did it'd be well deserved earnings.

I think I know sweet #### all about the very important topic of riding safely. Wearing a beacon and all the knowledge in the world can become a moot point once you're buried. That's one of the first things you learn if you read a book or do a course on the subject. Anyway SJ, keep the reports coming and the information flowing.Cheers.

I agree with the folks here, please post what you can.

(So, was anyone banned?)

No, no-one was/is banned. We really really don't want to do that. (And if we did, we'd post to let people know.)

yeah cheers for the info