i read in the paper that one guy was buried for an hour and lived! doesn't sound like they had beacons though (just conjecture though)

sad. it sounds like avalanches are rare in that area... mentioning the last time there was an avalanche victim (1990), and being that the guides all thought the area was safe that morning.

--rapidly changing conditions
--what the faithful daily reports (for hakuba, at least) say about always watching out for "the threat from above" (thanks, SJ and DR people)
--traveling in HUGE groups (18 or something like that in one group?!)
--the victims were the last/some of the last skiers to go down the slope (more people who have skied on a slope = more wiegh loading on the snowpack, easier for avlanches to occur)

From this article it seems like there was a depth hoar layer down at 40cm:
http://www.toonippo.co.jp/news_too/nto2007/20070215220951.asp

this article has the head guide mentioning the slope that slid was around 20 degrees. if true, that's pretty freaking scary:
http://www.toonippo.co.jp/news_too/nto2007/20070215130421.asp

last year there was a huge avi at Mammoth, in bounds, late in the day, after skiers had lapped it up all day.

dumb guides or not, snow is freaky.

and yet, what was the aussie group doing out in such sh*t conditions. let's not burn the japanese alone. the seppo wannabes shouldn't have been out there either, right. takes all kinds of idiots from all countries and nationalities to make this world FUBAR. being a seppo, i know. best bet is to follow the simplest of all BC rules, if it's puking, don't go. too easy. if you spent a vast sum of money for a dream vacation, control the urge to become a another avy stat and live to play another day.

"seppo wannabes"! That's only the PM mate! Not your average Aussie. Do agree that you shouldn't be out in such severe conditions but by all reports the weather turned bad very quickly and wasn't forecast to turn so bad so quick. Instead of blaming anyone I'd put this incident down to being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Here's what the Seppo wannabes were doing http://www.toonippo.co.jp/news_too/nto2007/20070216130902.asp

It's not clear whether they intended to head down through the trees to the east of the main dozo route, or whether they had decided to head back to the ropeway, but it sounds like the Japanese group was pretty happy to see them - they interviewed one of the survivors on the local TV news up here and she made it clear that more of them might have died if the patrollers hadn't showed up.

At this stage it sounds like the investigative team thinks the avalanche was probably set off naturally, rather than by one of the group. http://www.toonippo.co.jp/news_too/nto2007/20070215220951.asp

20 deg ! Scary indeed. It seems it is not as uncommon as previously thought (very low angle slopes sliding). Somebody in another thread mentionned AK seasons when it just slides anywhere!

the slide at Kagura on Jan 20/21 that I posted about (Karagamine course) was on a slope probably around 25 degrees. everyone was surprised it went, but man it's scary stuff when you have buried surface hoar beneath you.

Sat this weekend (Feb 16) is going to be a blue-bird day in Yuzawa, lots of deep fresh powder - but with a thick rain-crust underneath all that. Let's hope nothing goes sideways.

I don't get 'seppo wannabes'. What are you talking about?

Hey halfmachine. clr doesn't know what he's talking about. I think he's upset he was born a seppo! After all "Being a seppo, he knows!" By all reports if the Aussies weren't on the mountain there would have been more than the 2 deaths.

Looks like the group led by Simon made the right call.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21228609-2702,00.html

jeeez. That guy was lucky.

Definitely signing up for an avie course ASAP.

They found him using probes!
As we would say in Greece: God still owes him years...

Guide without a beacon?

Halfmachine, it was a joke...

Mudguts, it's called sarcasm...something I deduce from your rather redundant retort you've not quite mastered. Yet, add the sufix "bation" and we've got the only thing on which you'll ever have a firm grip. Get it now?

Being that this is an avi/bc forum, thought it might be news to most that the seppo homeland saw large numbers of avi accidents over the weekend.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070219/ap_on_re_us/avalanche_deaths;_ylt=AvIeA.VsvUUjiZfUM5ZqIllH2ocA

clr seriously tone it down a bit on the seppo talk.

Oh, sarcasm clr. Hard to determine when just reading text! Didn't have a sarcastic feel to it to me though. But, hey must be the language and attitude differences between a seppo and an Aussie.

The Aussies were on a guided tour by me, a private American guide, Simon Bernard. The Japanese were guided by the Sukayu Onsen guides, whose head guide by the way had over 30 years of experience.

The Aussies and I were all carrying Ava gear and all had experience and training. The Aussies were either presently or formerly ski patrolers. How fortunate the Japanese were that of any group that might have been on the mountain that day, it was our group.

We came across the accident scene, not having even known that there had been an avalanche, and spent the next 3 hours in blizzard conditions, digging out the buried, giving first aid and CPR, doing a beacon and probe search. We found the missing person who had been under the snow for an hour ALIVE, what a miracle!

I used my amateur radio to call for help and give an assessment in Japanese to the police as well as translate the Japanese injuries to help facilitate triage.

We built snow shelters around the injured who could not be moved and built snow caves to keep the others warm.

Even after the police and army arrived, the Aussies were told they were relieved and could have skied down the mountain to warmth and food, but instead put one of the injured in a boat and carried him down 2km. to a waiting ambulance.

The Aussies will be receiving certificates of thanks for their heroic efforts by the Japanese police. As a Hakkoda guide, I sincerely appreciate the efforts of the Aussies above and beyond what is normally expected in this tragic situation.

Fattwins and anyone else...apologies. Just putting great nomenclature to good use. Too bad the wit went overhead. Not so much a difference in national backgrounds/attitudes as it is personal aptitude. So it goes...the entire reason for using the term in the first place was to highlight the fact that most people were slagging off the Japanese but not the Aussies and their American guide. Fortunately for both parties, the former were not involved in an accident, thus they were able to carry out the rescue. However, it doesn't change the fact that going BC in such weather was not a good call to begin with. That's it...no more. Good Night and Good Luck.

powdernator good job i hope that you understand that what you guys did will never be forgoten!