2 dead, 1 missing, from guided group of 24:

http://dailynews.yahoo.co.jp/fc/domestic/mountain_accidents/

It's on the national news this one - looks like it was blizzard up there.

24 in a group? that should be warning sign number one.

In english

http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20070214p2a00m0na009000c.html

That, or taking them up amidst a snowstorm?

Hell, just some forum members was up there last weekend, when I was planing to go.

I really want to know what tour they were with.

Sad to hear of fatalities but - do people really want to go out to a place like that in blizzard conditions? Apart from the wiseness of doing that, it just doesn't sound like any fun.

Unfortunately fukdane, some people I would say myself included, have to save up for such holidays, you don't have many days off work and you want to make the most of a ski trip. Its easy if you live near to a mountain, but if you are there for just 2 days and its a blizzard or the lifts are closed you will often trek up to the top regardless.

If the conditions really were so bad, I wonder if they took the ropeway up, on Japan Today it said the avalanche happened beside the ropeway, so I wonder if it was running in the first place.

24 people total:

18 paying customers
5 guides
1 onsen employee

The ropeway stoped sometime after 10:00.

YellowSnow unfortunately most of the people that die are people that do the go go trips and stop thinking.

Well, I certainly wouldn't but I suppose I can see some people doing that.

Really tragic news that. I was at Hakkoda last weekend and it snowed 40cms on Sunday so Monday was truly epic conditions but there was a really unstable layer of snow up top. I was caught in a small avy that day that buried me up to my knees after I cut underneath one of my mates further up the mountain. Hakkoda is not a mountain to be taken lightly at all and what happened today has made me feel real humble and has highlighted what a mountain can do to people. As far as conditions go. The Hakkoda gondola stops at winds of 25m/s and we experienced 22m/s on Sunday. It was a complete whiteout up top. The 1-2 meter visibility combined with that horrendous wind, 2-3 meter deep tree wells that you just couldn't see made the first 100 meter drop of the peak quite uncomfortable and disorientating. We rode with a mate who has lived and ridden the mountain for 5 years so I felt very confident as my mate knew the mountain and routes extremely well. Today's nasty event will have at least one positive outcome as I now fully want to learn everything there is to know about about avies and safe riding.

Add'l Info by Yomiuri Online NP,
- The avy happened apx 11:00 am on Feb 14,
on the north face of Maetake peak (1,252m) .
- The route name is Douzou (bronze statue) course.
- The avy size was 200-300m long with 25m wide.
- The victims are two men (44 & 39) living in Tokyo.
- The customers stay at Sukayu Onsen Ryokan.
- Seven members of an Ausie mt rescue team happened to be passing by and gave them hands.

Add'l Info by NHK TV news,
- The avy size was 100m long with 5-10m wide.
- The new snow fall was estimated to be 40cm.
The snow pile is 3 meters depth.
- They saw blue sky when starting from the mt top sation of the ropeway. Soon, the weather was getting worse. Snowstorm came. A gust of 30 meter per sec was recorded at the mt top station.
- The avy attacked behind them when they were skiing down.

Yahoo! Map - Maetake peak
http://map.yahoo.co.jp/pl?lat=40%2F40%2F...map&size=s&sc=5

Why is this not a strange thread?

If my memory serves me right:

Maedake with hiking trail on right side


Other face where peeps ride


Same shot, further away


One of (if not the most) popular route at Hakkoda.
Sad news.

some of the more detailed articles:
http://www.asahi.com/national/update/0214/TKY200702140301.html

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20070214-00000151-mai-soci

I hope this event finally wake up some officials and put an order to the guided tour farce...

What exactly is the farce, tsondaboy? (honest q!)

There are some people that do responsible professional guiding in Japan, and have taken CAA Level 2. 2 of them are also advertised through this site.
When I am talking about a farce I mean this:
http://www.snowjapanforums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/5/130.html

i read in the paper that one guy was buried for an hour and lived! doesn't sound like they had beacons though (just conjecture though)

sad. it sounds like avalanches are rare in that area... mentioning the last time there was an avalanche victim (1990), and being that the guides all thought the area was safe that morning.

--rapidly changing conditions
--what the faithful daily reports (for hakuba, at least) say about always watching out for "the threat from above" (thanks, SJ and DR people)
--traveling in HUGE groups (18 or something like that in one group?!)
--the victims were the last/some of the last skiers to go down the slope (more people who have skied on a slope = more wiegh loading on the snowpack, easier for avlanches to occur)

From this article it seems like there was a depth hoar layer down at 40cm:
http://www.toonippo.co.jp/news_too/nto2007/20070215220951.asp

this article has the head guide mentioning the slope that slid was around 20 degrees. if true, that's pretty freaking scary:
http://www.toonippo.co.jp/news_too/nto2007/20070215130421.asp

last year there was a huge avi at Mammoth, in bounds, late in the day, after skiers had lapped it up all day.

dumb guides or not, snow is freaky.

and yet, what was the aussie group doing out in such sh*t conditions. let's not burn the japanese alone. the seppo wannabes shouldn't have been out there either, right. takes all kinds of idiots from all countries and nationalities to make this world FUBAR. being a seppo, i know. best bet is to follow the simplest of all BC rules, if it's puking, don't go. too easy. if you spent a vast sum of money for a dream vacation, control the urge to become a another avy stat and live to play another day.

"seppo wannabes"! That's only the PM mate! Not your average Aussie. Do agree that you shouldn't be out in such severe conditions but by all reports the weather turned bad very quickly and wasn't forecast to turn so bad so quick. Instead of blaming anyone I'd put this incident down to being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Here's what the Seppo wannabes were doing http://www.toonippo.co.jp/news_too/nto2007/20070216130902.asp

It's not clear whether they intended to head down through the trees to the east of the main dozo route, or whether they had decided to head back to the ropeway, but it sounds like the Japanese group was pretty happy to see them - they interviewed one of the survivors on the local TV news up here and she made it clear that more of them might have died if the patrollers hadn't showed up.

At this stage it sounds like the investigative team thinks the avalanche was probably set off naturally, rather than by one of the group. http://www.toonippo.co.jp/news_too/nto2007/20070215220951.asp

20 deg ! Scary indeed. It seems it is not as uncommon as previously thought (very low angle slopes sliding). Somebody in another thread mentionned AK seasons when it just slides anywhere!

the slide at Kagura on Jan 20/21 that I posted about (Karagamine course) was on a slope probably around 25 degrees. everyone was surprised it went, but man it's scary stuff when you have buried surface hoar beneath you.

Sat this weekend (Feb 16) is going to be a blue-bird day in Yuzawa, lots of deep fresh powder - but with a thick rain-crust underneath all that. Let's hope nothing goes sideways.

I don't get 'seppo wannabes'. What are you talking about?

Hey halfmachine. clr doesn't know what he's talking about. I think he's upset he was born a seppo! After all "Being a seppo, he knows!" By all reports if the Aussies weren't on the mountain there would have been more than the 2 deaths.

Looks like the group led by Simon made the right call.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21228609-2702,00.html

jeeez. That guy was lucky.

Definitely signing up for an avie course ASAP.

They found him using probes!
As we would say in Greece: God still owes him years...

Guide without a beacon?

Halfmachine, it was a joke...

Mudguts, it's called sarcasm...something I deduce from your rather redundant retort you've not quite mastered. Yet, add the sufix "bation" and we've got the only thing on which you'll ever have a firm grip. Get it now?

Being that this is an avi/bc forum, thought it might be news to most that the seppo homeland saw large numbers of avi accidents over the weekend.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070219/ap_on_re_us/avalanche_deaths;_ylt=AvIeA.VsvUUjiZfUM5ZqIllH2ocA

clr seriously tone it down a bit on the seppo talk.

Oh, sarcasm clr. Hard to determine when just reading text! Didn't have a sarcastic feel to it to me though. But, hey must be the language and attitude differences between a seppo and an Aussie.

The Aussies were on a guided tour by me, a private American guide, Simon Bernard. The Japanese were guided by the Sukayu Onsen guides, whose head guide by the way had over 30 years of experience.

The Aussies and I were all carrying Ava gear and all had experience and training. The Aussies were either presently or formerly ski patrolers. How fortunate the Japanese were that of any group that might have been on the mountain that day, it was our group.

We came across the accident scene, not having even known that there had been an avalanche, and spent the next 3 hours in blizzard conditions, digging out the buried, giving first aid and CPR, doing a beacon and probe search. We found the missing person who had been under the snow for an hour ALIVE, what a miracle!

I used my amateur radio to call for help and give an assessment in Japanese to the police as well as translate the Japanese injuries to help facilitate triage.

We built snow shelters around the injured who could not be moved and built snow caves to keep the others warm.

Even after the police and army arrived, the Aussies were told they were relieved and could have skied down the mountain to warmth and food, but instead put one of the injured in a boat and carried him down 2km. to a waiting ambulance.

The Aussies will be receiving certificates of thanks for their heroic efforts by the Japanese police. As a Hakkoda guide, I sincerely appreciate the efforts of the Aussies above and beyond what is normally expected in this tragic situation.

Fattwins and anyone else...apologies. Just putting great nomenclature to good use. Too bad the wit went overhead. Not so much a difference in national backgrounds/attitudes as it is personal aptitude. So it goes...the entire reason for using the term in the first place was to highlight the fact that most people were slagging off the Japanese but not the Aussies and their American guide. Fortunately for both parties, the former were not involved in an accident, thus they were able to carry out the rescue. However, it doesn't change the fact that going BC in such weather was not a good call to begin with. That's it...no more. Good Night and Good Luck.

powdernator good job i hope that you understand that what you guys did will never be forgoten!

almost anything will slide under the right conditions, safe travel techniques minimize the impact if you do happen to be there when it does.

i'm very sad to hear about this. i've skied with Simon and with the Sukayu Onsen guides before. i was invited to go there two weeks ago for a tour with the head guide.

i have a lot of thoughts going through my head about this and can't sort them all out right now. i need to read the reports.

powdernator, you guys did an incredible job out there. You all deserve recognition for what you did!

Big Respect to Powdernator!

What were the Aussies doing up there?....It's a fair question. For the devistated party that got hit by this Avie it's a good job they were. Five of the seven Aussies were fully trained ski patrollers from Thredbo, fully equipped with shovels, beacons, poles and first aid kits.
Judging by this story in the Sydney Morning Herald, they played a major part in the rescue. It took four hours for the rescue party to arrive and get them off the hill.

They said the storm set in quicker than expected. I'm not going to pass gudgement on any involved as I don't know enough about Avies. One thing though it did answer my previous question on this topic. How safe are backcountry tours?

If you look at it from a purely statistical point of view, is it any more dangerous than any other risky guided activity?
How many people around the world would get killed each year cycling, kayaking, caving, scuba diving ect.

Sorry...I just posted above without reading the second page

Yeah good work Powdernater.
How fortunate were those guys to have you and the Aussies turn up?
There's 7 Aussie we can be proud of back here.

I think Montoya mentionned aerlier that this avalanche went off on a slope less than 30deg. Statistically I have read that only 3% of avalanches happen on slopes less than 30deg. Unfortunate. Yes Manta these guys all did a great job, and let's not forget about Simon.

here is myAussie mate's version of the rescue. Pure luck that some pros were on the mountain. Good on yah Ossie! Oy Oy Oy!!!



in case the link goes cold


Helping to save the lives of 22 people was all in a day's work for seven Australian skiers, writes Robert Wainwright.

THEY set off early on Valentine's Day to explore one of northern Japan's remote mountain tops, seven Australians bound together by a passion for finding and skiing virgin powder snow.

But by the time they came down from the mountain that night these veteran snow men, five of them members of Thredbo's elite Ski Patrol, had helped to save the lives of 22 Japanese skiers caught in an avalanche that buried one survivor for 90 minutes, killed two men and landed eight in hospital, where they remain with broken bones and ruptured lungs, bowels and kidneys.

Amazingly, when their job was done the group simply walked away and had a hot bath. Now, just a week after the drama - and back in Australia to tell their tale for the first time - they insist there be little fuss. However, in Japan, one of the world's biggest ski markets, they have left a lasting mark on rescue co-ordination and training methods.

Yesterday, they reflected publicly about the five hours they spent in the eye of a white-out. The Thredbo patrol members Jonathan Disher, Ross McSwiney, Mark Spilsbury, Glen Kirkwood and Roger Campbell and their friends David Stewart-Thompson and David Brown said they had arrived in high spirits at the Hakkoda resort in the early hours of February 14.

It was the last leg of an unforgettable two-week holiday exploring the remote powder country of northern Japan - a final blast before heading home.

Aware that the weather was deteriorating but told there was still several hours to ski safely, they caught a mid-morning cable car packed with skiers up the mountain. Because of their plans to powder ski away from known areas, they carried rescue beacons, first-aid kits, GPS navigation gear, shovels, two-way radios and other emergency equipment.

The car disgorged 80 or so skiers, most of whom headed back down the slope. They included a group of 24 on a tour organised by a local inn. But the Australians were going further, accompanied by an American guide, and climbed an 80-metre face towards a nearby ridge. By the time they reached the top 15 minutes later the weather had changed dramatically.

It was 11am and the storm front hit with wind speeds of 120kmh. The snow was horizontal and, unbeknown to them, authorities had cleared the mountain and were about to issue an avalanche warning.

"I don't think anyone would admit it, but we were shitting ourselves," Mr Disher recounted yesterday. "The sky was white, the ground was white and the air was white. There was simply nothing to see.

"Getting caught in high winds at Thredbo, where we know the terrain intimately, is one thing, but this was unfamiliar territory.

"The wind chill factor had probably dropped to minus 20. We knew the key to survival was getting down off the mountain as quickly as possible."

The men made their way slowly down the ridge to the tree line, where visibility would be better. At the trees was a marked route leading to an access road and safety. "The guide was leading and I was behind him," Mr Disher said. "I could see ahead of us there were several people kneeling over someone in the snow. As we got through the trees we could see the devastation everywhere."

The front half of the 24-strong tour group had been hit by an avalanche, which had smashed into them through a forest. At least one man was dead and several lay badly injured. Those not obviously injured were staggering around the slope, stunned and disoriented. They were all in trouble.

Mr Disher and his colleagues quickly assessed the situation. "No one seemed to know what to do so I guess our training took over and we just took control of the situation. One of the boys shouted, 'There's a hand sticking out of the snow,' so four of us got out our shovels and started digging. Then we saw another one.

"We had to get them out quickly. Snow compresses around you like setting concrete; you can't move and you can't breathe. It's the most frightening thing you can imagine."

The second buried skier was a woman, one of six in the group. She was seriously hurt with a ruptured kidney, burst bowel and a punctured lung, but survived.

Another man did not survive despite desperate CPR attempts: "You always hope. Ross was pumping his chest and David [Stewart-Thompson] was doing the pulse, but he was already gone."

The drama was not over. The Japanese ski party was still in shock, as was the Australian's guide, their only means of communication. After demanding a head count it became apparent that another man was missing, buried somewhere beneath them on the slope. He was probably already dead.

They began to search in a grid pattern using probes - aluminium tubes which can be linked together like tent poles to make three metre-long sticks, then used to prod beneath the surface of the snow. Usually they are used as a last resort to find bodies.

After an hour of an exhausting search the missing man was found buried face down near one of the other buried skiers.

"We were resigned to finding a body, but as we dug him out a foot twitched," Mr Disher recalled. "When we got his head out he groaned. The elation was just unbelievable. He was alive, even though he'd been under the snow for at least 90 minutes.

"His helmet was badly dented and his nose smashed as well as a wrist. He'd hit a tree, survived, and then buried somehow in an air bubble."

The emergency was far from over. There were still more than 30 people trapped on a mountain slope in appalling weather, among them two dead and eight injured, and help was still at least three hours away.

The Japanese authorities, now alerted to their plight by two-way radio, were struggling to put together a rescue team, eventually mobilising a combination of fire brigade, police and army personnel.

The first person to reach them was a young woman, another ski guide, who hiked up the slopes carrying hot tea. Litters to carry the dead and injured would take four hours to arrive.

In the meantime, the Australian contingent built shelters. "We were wet and tired ourselves, and couldn't communicate because no one apart from our guide spoke any English and he was struggling," Mr Disher said.

"We had to keep ourselves occupied so we built igloos around each of the injured, even a couple of snow caves into the slopes so people could get out of the conditions."

It was 4.30pm before the main party was ready to bring the injured down the slope, helped by the Australians. They carried a litter before disappearing back to their lodge.

It would be several hours before anyone realised the role they had played. By the next morning they were fielding television interviews.

The Japanese Government is now planning a ceremony in Sydney to formally thank the men.

Jonathan Disher still reckons the fuss is unnecessary. "I suppose we view it as all in a day's work. It's why we train and why the patrol is important."


Story Picture: ``As we dug him out a foot twitched'' ... Australian skiers come to the aid of a man who spent 90 minutes buried in snow.

Not to put down what those guys did, but what I did notice in this article is that it was really biased in trying to make it sounds like the ozzies were the only ones who knew what was going on and that Simon was just there along for the ride. Too much oy oy oy / chest beating for my liking. Not those guys' fault, just some dumb journalist.

"members of Thredbo's ELITE Ski Patrol" A place well known for its huge mountains gnarly runs and massive dumps.

"they carried rescue beacons, first-aid kits, GPS navigation gear, shovels, two-way radios " then later followed by "The Japanese authorities, now alerted to their plight by two-way radio" implying they alerted the authorities themselves. Simon obviously called the authorities as those guys could not speak japanese, nor would they know which frequency to call in (fyi Simon is a short-wave radio fanatic).

"The Japanese ski party was still in shock, as was the Australian's guide". I guess he was just bumbling around doing nothing eh?

"no one apart from our guide spoke any English and he was struggling". Nice one. Let's step all over his head to make ourselves look good. Very Galant.

"After DEMANDING a head count" good choice of words there.

"in Japan, one of the world's biggest ski markets, they have left a lasting mark on rescue co-ordination and training methods" Modesty is one of their many qualities as one of them would say.

"They began to search in a grid pattern using probes - aluminium tubes which can be linked together like tent poles to make three metre-long sticks,". I understand that not everybody knows what they are, so no complaints here, I just like the way it is explained. By the way all probes are 3m long , they only come in one size.

What these guys did was amazing, but this article is really painful to read. The scary thing is that it is the SMH, not some unknown newspaper. Thankfully not all press articles down under are so populist.

I can't see any reason to nickpick over details in a recount of the event. They were in the right place at the right time in terrible conditions and SAVED LIVES!

what ever

there are always two views of any situation but how qualified was the guide to be in avie country?

Anyone one can call themselves a guide and this cowboy's web page has nothing about his training and qualifications other than being bi-lingual and having boarded the mountain for over ten years. Not really the primary consideration in a crisis where people are dying.

Hey big swinging dick.

My passport says born in Bridgetown. Your post reminds me of why I left Orstraya.

Pathetic

Dickhead

Looks like slightly tinted people 3, Orstraya 0

"THE Indian army and police rescued three foreign skiers stranded on a peak in Indian Kashmir after heavy snow triggered avalanches, the army said today.

The trio got stuck near Sunshine peak overlooking Gulmarg, the region's top ski destination, 52 kilometres north of summer capital Srinagar.

"The three remained stuck in the snow for two days," the army said.

"The (rescue) teams, after crossing very inhospitable terrain, found the three foreign nationals and brought them to Gulmarg late Wednesday evening (local time)".

The army said the three were "wet and cold and unable to move".

There were no further details on their condition.

The army identified the three skiers as Israelis Gay Landen, 32, and Ido Neigu, 31, and Norwegian Franciska Rogne, 25.

Last month, Australian climber and skier Shaun Kratzer, 31, died in an avalanche while skiing at a height of 4000m near Apherwat mountain at Gulmarg.

Gulmarg resort boasts thousands of unmarked vertical descents and has virtually no restrictions on off-piste skiing.

This year, several hundred Westerners have been skiing in the heavily-snowed area which falls close to the militarised de facto border dividing Kashmir between India and Pakistan."

The front pic on Simon's website is a bit funny but calling him a cowboy is easy mud-slinging. Being bilingual when you need to call for rescue in Japan is useful so is the 10 years' experience on the mountain. I have been touring with Simon before and he did a great job. As for certifications, I do not know of many people with true guide certifications in Japan. That's just the way it is here. To be honest I would rather go with a guy who knows the mountain and has 10 years experience on it than with a fully certified guide who has not much experience of the place. By the way, the only time I ever got caught in an avalanche was with a professional guide in Europe (they're supposed to have the toughest standards as well).

Anyways, the rant was about the tone of the article. Nobody denies the fact that the rescuers did a great job and saved lives. I hope you guys can get over it.

Interesting post Soub. I always wondered about mountains in that neck of the woods. They must have some pretty huge vert over there. Maybe next road-trip!