We are a group of 5 spending 2 wks in Japan late Jan 2008. We are having 5 nights at Nosawa Onsen then 7 at Hakuba and final night in Tokyo.

Just want ideas on the cost and hassle of either hiring a car for 5 plus gear vs train/bus travel. Also info re etag or ways of paying toll roads.

Have previously hired car in Canada and NZ because it worked out cheaper than 4 or 5 fares. BTW +1 learnt to drive in Ottawa so used to snow.

Thanks for any ideas in advance.

No idea of the actual costs, but hiring a Delica will save you a bundle. Driving in Japan is a doddle as long as you keep to the left

For the trips around Nozawa and Hakuba the train/buses won't be that expensive but having the car will let you scoot around to different resorts. Drivign is super easy. It will be more expensive but I'd avoid using the car in and out of Tokyo - just too much hassle and traffic. Getting out of Tokyo can be tricky and getting in can take forever. For the Nagano/Tokyo trips go for the shink. It will cost more but save you a lot of time and agro.

5 adults? 1 car might not be enough with bags and gear and stuff.

I'd go for a car too. Will be much less hassle. I think almost all hire-cars have navigation systems too so get the guy at the rental place to show you how to program it by entering the phone numbers of your destination (and how to delete them when you arrive). Wouldn't worry too much about driving into Tokyo, just don't plan to drive around once your there! If your Tokyo hotel doesn't have parking, you could pick up a car at the airport and drive for the whole trip, then dump the car at a rental place in Tokyo so you wouldn't have to be messing around with it in the city. Then just get the train from Tokyo back to the airport. If your hotel has parking though and they'll let you park the car early you might as well just keep it and drive to the airport the next day. Timings for driving in & out of Tokyo really depends on where in Tokyo you are planning on staying and on what time of day or night you are planning to do it. Let us know nearer the time and I'm sure someone will have more advice for you.

Car size - you can hire something like a Toyota Hi-ace which had five seats and then a load of space in the back, or else will have 9 seats that you should be able to fold away. It's a kind of mini-bus/van type thing so slightly less comfortable but well worth it space-wise.
There are also more comfortable people-carrier type things like the Toyota El Grand but the seats don't fold away as compactly as in the van types. Some of the roads in the mountain areas have blocks that won't let you past if you don't have snow types or chains so check with the hire company that you can get something with winter tyres. I don't know if it's possible but ask if they have roof carriers available for your skis or boards too.

Also if you are planning giving up the car before Tokyo and on spending "the day before the night you stay" in Tokyo, check with the hotel about leaving your gear with them in the morning. Lots of hotels won't let you check in until the afternoon but they'll take your stuff. If not the train stations have lockers but you'd need quite a few!

Thanks everyone for ideas - we are leaning towards hiring the vehicle and have been recommended ToCoo!

Are the navigation systems in English?

A few are but with limited features. They are not that difficult to use even in Japanese once someone has shown you how to use it.

Yeah, um, good luck with the navi thing. With the greatest respect to MJ (who having lived in Japan for a while probably finds getting around the place quite easy) if this will be your first experience in Japan don't underestimate how crowded the roads can get, how confusing the directions or how long it takes to get anywhere by car. At night, after someone has pushed the wrong button on the navi system so you're now looking at a different screen with lots of confusing writing on it or you've missed the turn or the navi has taken you on the longest way round or you're running out of fuel but don't know where to find the nearest station etc. or it's snowing and the traffic is going at about 2kmph or god forbid you get completely lost, you might think that maybe having a couple of Kirin’s whilst sitting in the shink sounds pretty appealing. By all means get a car once you're up in the hills. Avoid Tokyo in a car. When you factor in road tolls and fuel getting to and from the airport/Tokyo to the snow, you're not saving that much on a return shinkansen ticket. Then again, I like things well organised and certain. If you like a bit of fun, take a chance, take the car.

ToCoo will want to see an international driver's license.

I drive a lot in this place and have done so for years. I enjoy the challenge of driving in the bigger cities here (so long as it isn't every day), but I have to agree with RD. If you are a newcomer, and are looking for the "easiest" way to get somewhere, don't rent a car. Take the public transport, and then hire a car once you are there. It is amazing just how frustrated you can get trying to deal with the situations RD just described. I have experienced almost every one of those experiences at some point or other here.

I'll put in an opposite opinion, except for the going into Tokyo bit. Something like a Delica will meet all your needs, and be much cheaper for 5 people. If you do your homework and have a decent navigator, it's not hard. You can plan your routes and download maps no problem.

Start here:

http://www.mapion.co.jp/index.html

Yeah, I should add, that if you enjoy the challenge then you should be able to sort it out without too much fuss. It just depends if you don't mind the extra hassle, or wither you want the no-brain shinkansen option.

Since no-one has pointed it out, I can't see this saving you any money. I reckon a large 4wd van will cost over 15,000 a day just for the rental. For two weeks, that is over 200,000 before tolls, petrol, optional insurance, etc. The cost of tolls and petrol are largely irrelevant for essentially a return journey from Kanto to Nagano compared to the cost of the car.

I reckon public transport will cost half as much. That includes sending your ski gear by courier so you don't have to carry it on the train.

If you still want to drive, get a HiAce and enjoy the extra room. Five plus ski gear in a Delica will be cramped.

The only time I can see you needing a rental car is when you're in Hakuba and want to visit various resorts there or go into town.

Otherwise, it might not be worth it. Getting to Noz and Hakuba from Nagano on the bus is cheap and easy!

I might add that if you're in Hakuba and it's cold it really sucks if you don't have your own transport. This year was ok cause it was almost sun-tanning weather, but the year before was so cold I hardly left my lodge (too poor to afford taxis). So it is definitely a bonus with the hire car, even just getting to the shops!

whats the story with Shinkansen and taking your board etc on it? Where would it be stored?

You could leave it in the small space between the end seats and the wall, hold it upright where you sit, or go for the easier option and takyubin it ahead of you overnight.

So did you do the car or train?

We were there in January - actually did Hakuba first then Nozawa, and funnily enough missed mobility in Nozawa rather than Hakuba - where we did a lot of walking and enjoyed it. Whilst in Nozawa a car to do some side trips would have been an enjoyable distraction. There were 4 of us - Mum-Dad +2 K and certainly the trains/buses were very workable.

This year we are doing Nozawa (confidence building terrain) then Shiga Kogen, and I must say a car is tempting, but as pointed out earlier the rental cost alone, for something that sits idle most of the time is something of a hurdle.

It is interesting that ppl find a @200 taxi fare intimidating (for 4 ppl) but are happy to pay thousands to rent a car to achieve the same objective with more hassle.

Still trying to work out best way to get from Nozawa to Shiga without going back into Nagano.

Hey Mr Brisbane,

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm going to SK only though.

What I've found is its possibly cheaper for me to hire a car to take my family from Tokyo/Narita to the snow, then drop it off at the nearest depot. Then hire another car when I want to go back to Tokyo. To hire something like Nissan Dualis (AWD) is 12000Y ($115ish atm) or a Corolla Fielder (AWD Wagon) for about 7850Y for 24hours, which should give you more than enough time to get from the airport to the snow. Compare this to paying about $80 each way per person for a seat on the shinkansen to Nagano, it makes a little more sense to drive. Even with their hefty tolls, it still works out cheaper and it also means you can stop, shop and get photos if you want.

I know the nearest Nissan Rental Car depot is in east Nakano City, so I'm not sure how far that is from Nozawa.

You need to look up hyperdia for train fares - my memory of the shink fare from Nagoya was under 5000yen and my research is tending to confirm that Narita to Nagano is about the same.

Did you have a disaster with hotelclub?

http://grace.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/hyperWeb.cgi#ROUTE1

From what i can see, the fare for unreserved seats is 4640 yen

But if you look on the total amount of money, it says 7970Y.

Can any locals confirm how much it costs to go from Tokyo to Nagano on the shinkansen?

That is for green car resrved seats ?