Two separte incidents this weekend:

1. Tsugaike (Hakuba, Nagano)
2. Osoran(Hiroshima)

Kraut, the Goryu Ridge (Hakuba, Nagano) slide, as TJ reported ending in a rescue was from last week Thursday.


The snowpack is not stable at the moment.

I read the Hakuba Now report as well. It isn't wrong to say "if the sign says there is an avalanche danger they mean it and you should stay out." This is generally good advice...BUT that sign seems to be the standard sign at many resorts and in places where there isn't an avalanche danger. Instead of just posting a "closed" sign, they post a "closed - avalanche danger" sign for courses the patrol hasn't bothered to open for various reasons. Anyhow, if you see this sign SO many times on courses that seem safe and people are poaching it, then the result is a tendency toward ignoring these signs. Perhaps leading to situations like at Tsugaike.
This was the case where I was riding yesterday - everyone and their mother was poaching this one run and the patrol didn't seem to care. It WAS safe. What will those people think when faced with a similar situation at another resort?
I don't want to put the blame on anyone but I would like to see patrol in Japan take a more active role. Instead of just saying "Don't go off course", it would be nice if patrol took actual avalanche precautionary measures in-bounds and out. Patrol should use dynamite and be on the mountain early stomping out cornices and such. Is this too much to ask?

one good case in point is that south facing bowl in Goryu. People will go there if the snow is good and that bowl has some really gnarly slides. I have seen the rubble after a big one - it was huge - 100's of meters long at the bottom. It wouldn't take patrol that much effort to go and set that one off on danger days, God knows they have enough patrol at Goryu/47.

MB that was an idiot comment period. You no crap about snowpack safety really and im sorry you shouldnt be talking about it period!
Be an armchair quarterback but at least know something!
Ill leave it at that untill I know more!

Thanks for that FT.
Very encouraging words there.

Simple fact is I don't know enough about snowpack safety to make good judgments. That is one of the big reasons why I am not going out of bounds at this stage of the game. But as someone at that end of the spectrum I am shocked that people in the same space as me would consider making those judgements in direct conflict with the 'experts' recommendation to not go there. I would not consider that an "idiot" thing to say.

We were all new to the sport at one time or another. At least I am taking an interest in actively learning more.

:confused:
Mamabear are you critiscising FT or Big Dogg? I didn't get what you mean.
I thought Big Dogg was saying that sometimes the signs are there when they don't need to be and made some comment on what the patrol should and shouldn't be doing. Then FT said he wss an idiot for posting that?

Debating safety when you know nothing is ridiculous. Saying that one resort is safer than another based on what facts is ridiculous.

FT, sometimes the grammar mistakes make it impossible to understand what you are talking about.

This thread is confusing. Just realised FT was talking to Mama Bear not Big Dogg so now MB's reply makes (slightly) more sense.
Still not sure what's going on though so going back to work now

Sorry but I was in a rush! I usally check a bit better these days.

Me too. I am sure there are some experts which can identify dangerous areas and can handle those. I am not one of them.

To me, the simple thought of sliding down a nice hill, arriving at the bottom, with no lift in sight, and have to walk for hours in skiboots in deep deep snow, not exactly certain what directions to go, is enough to keep me in well groomed ares!

Can I have more tape please!

I got this message from Tsugaike resort this morning.

いつも栂池高原観光協会の主催するアンケート調査にご協力
をいただき、ありがとうございます。
３日午後４時ごろ、栂池高原スキー場において「立入禁止」
規制中のコースに入ったお客様が雪崩に巻き込まれる事故が
発生し、昨日までに被災者お二人の死亡が確認されました。
栂池高原観光協会では、お二人のご冥福を心よりお祈りする
とともに、事故で怪我をされた皆様の回復を心よりお祈り申
し上げます。
栂池高原スキー場パトロールでは、毎朝リフトの運行開始前
に、全ゲレンデの安全確認をするとともに、随時パトロール
を行い、皆さまの安全確保に努めております。
雪崩の危険性があると判断した場合は、コース入り口をネッ
トで封鎖するとともに「立入禁止」の標識板を設置し、コー
スへの立入を禁止しております。
今回の事故の詳細については現在警察で調査中ですが、栂池
高原観光協会といたしましても、これを教訓に、さらなる
安全対策を進め、皆さまに安全で楽しいスノーリゾートライフ
を提供できるように努めてまいります。
皆さまも「自分の身は自分で守る」という気持ちで、規制
表示やパトロールの指示などに従って安全に楽しくスキー・
スノーボードをお楽しみ頂きたく、お願い申し上げます。

We should all get down and bow to FT..
pffft. who's the idiot?

Bow to me oh please do! Lets talk about serious topics where people know jack ...!

So any discussion on avalanches should only be discussed by those who know what they are talking about FT?
Those interested in the topic and wanting to learn more should just sit back and wait for you to enlighten them?
As far as I can tell you are not a moderator on this forum so have no real say on what can be talked about and by whom. You're just a guy with way too much time on his hands Mr 10,000+ post boy!

I think what FT is trying to say is that there's no information about this incident yet (the avy mentioned in the Hakuba Now report) so it's pointless for people to go on about who was irresponsible etc without knowing the facts






hmmm, think about what you just wrote..... sounds like a good idea to me!
Do you want to read a long thread about something deadly like avalanches written by people who don't know what they're talking about????? but anyways, we don't know ANYTHING about this Hakuba Now! avy so what more can be written about it?


actually, FT has a wealth of knowledge about snow & the backcountry and many on these forums have learnt alot from him.



aaah, post-count envy rears it's ugly head again!

Good one kuma

oh great :rolleyes: Mr. 7957 posts just showed up

Actually Kuma, GN's comments were addressed to this:

GN's points are just as valid.

one more post for me