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#288525 - Sat Oct 18 2008 11:34 PM Re: Niseko avalanches [Re: Creek Boy]
G Offline
SJ'er

Registered: Fri Feb 28 2003
Posts: 21
Loc: Perth
If/When one does let go in Niseko off the peak it could take out a lot of people (maybe not completely bury but I wouldn't bet on it). Heaps of people without a clue sit in the gullies scratching their arses enjoying the view and taking photos while dozens of people are dropping in on top of them. If you don't get buried there are plenty of trees to be smashed into aswell. There will be two main types of people caught, those who are unaware of the risk and those who don't respect the risk (because they have been in "riskier" terrain before with no problems).

Any avie can be bad news. With so many people around the probability unfortunately can increase.

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#288701 - Tue Oct 21 2008 10:17 AM Re: Niseko avalanches [Re: G]
Ezorisu Online   content
SJ'er with 1000+ posts

Registered: Wed Jan 04 2006
Posts: 1266
Loc: Hawaii and Sapporo
True. A very good reason to heed the "peak closed" signs when they're up.
_________________________
The word "Lisp" has an "s" in it...
That's harsh.

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#291441 - Tue Nov 11 2008 11:18 PM Re: Niseko avalanches [Re: Ezorisu]
Black Diamond Offline
SJ'er

Registered: Tue Oct 28 2008
Posts: 12
Loc: Hokkaido
Sorry CB, have to disagree with you a bit. Some areas in Niseko are closed simply because they've never been opened or managed properly. Case in point, Mizu no sawa. The management have done testing and blasting for three years and it's the local gov't who are blocking this area and others from opening simply because they don't care and don't need the hassle. I'm not even sure that the local "avie group" is even trying to help speed up the process. Someone did die there many years ago but please don't tell me that these closed areas are any more dangerous than the areas that they do open (besides the guts of haru no taki). The Higashiyama resort even had an avalanche risk assesment expert from Canada visit, train staff and survey the mizu no sawa area. His verdict was that it would be most stable and safest if people simply skied it regularly. Of course there will be dangerous days for these areas too and they should be managed accordingly.
The "Niseko Local Rules" (and I cringe at that name, but that's a whole other topic) were created to relieve the pressure of people wanting to ski off piste and in my opinion is a bandage that will break as soon as there is another avie accident anywhere in the Niseko area. That said at least they are doing something and are informing people. Unfortunately they are not acting on behalf of the Japan avi association as a large Japan-wide body giving it more unity and strength.
Then you have most places in Hokkaido like Rusutsu who turn a blind eye to skiing off piste even though it is officially forbidden and finally places like Asahidake where you can ski anywhere you like and could easily die from an avalanche or getting lost. How the hell is the average punter going to know the diference!!??
An international resort (asahidake is not a resort mind you) should accomodate international tourists and operate at international standards. Not a new or novel idea.
Sorry to vent and I know a bit off topic, but still love Japan... minus the cross-armed oyagis.

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#291873 - Sat Nov 15 2008 09:32 AM Re: Niseko avalanches [Re: Black Diamond]
Creek Boy Offline
SJ'er with 10000+ posts

Registered: Wed Jul 17 2002
Posts: 11239
Loc: is everything
>Sorry CB, have to disagree with you a bit. Some areas in Niseko are closed simply because they've never been opened or managed properly. Case in point, Mizu no sawa. The management have done testing and blasting for three years and it's the local gov't who are blocking this area and others from opening simply because they don't care and don't need the hassle.

Right, thats the govt that is stopping them, not the resorts. Kinda hard to fight the govt here - especially when there is no precident for them to act/compare it with. Japanese suck at setting precidents and get so hung up in procedure the cause/fight for what they were working for gets lost in the void.

I dunno if it was clear BD, but I was also trying to point out that some days the peak and other areas are closed. And that if they are for people not to go out and ski those areas bc they prolly are prone to slide.

>The Higashiyama resort even had an avalanche risk assesment expert from Canada visit, train staff and survey the mizu no sawa area. His verdict was that it would be most stable and safest if people simply skied it regularly. Of course there will be dangerous days for these areas too and they should be managed accordingly.

Which gets back to theyre trying to do all they can to open it up, but since it is a national park (regulated by the govt, right?) they have to abide by govt rules.

Im not saying its right because I agree with, "you have most places in Hokkaido like Rusutsu who turn a blind eye to skiing off piste even though it is officially forbidden and finally places like Asahidake where you can ski anywhere you like and could easily die from an avalanche or getting lost. How the hell is the average punter going to know the diference!!??"

Happo is very lax, but Goryu/47 arent. Why? I have no idea. Then you have other areas in the valley where its just cat and mouse w/patrol. Obviously some areas that people ski, if slid, could slide to the runs/cat track, which would be devestating, but other areas where its S.C. dont slide to anywhere dangerous. Yet, those who know nuff bout avies and those courses still cant take responsibility for themselves.

Something Japan sucks at. They dont understand "responsibility". Going to digress now, but bear with me. Have you guys seen on the news about Kei Uni, Waseda Uni, and Doshisha Uni, have all had students arrested recently for pot? That would be nothing new in the States, yet its huge news here. What does the Board do? They go on TV and do the deep bows worship worship in front of hundreds of reporters taking the blame for those kids rolleyes Why? Because they see it as their fault, but obviously to us, all they wanna do is protect their image. Now, what happens if somebody dies at a resort? That happened at Tsugaike last year right, or was it two years ago where the uni profs took some uni kids on a ski trip. They had part of the cat track closed off bc the S. facing slopes were prone to slide. They ducked the ropes to continue going down the cat track and got swept away in an avie. One or two died. Again, that was the resorts fault and you could see them doing their 申し訳ないs on TV. This might not be the best example bc that lecturer ended up worship worship worship a million times himself, but I honestly dont think this country understands the idea of "personal responsiblity" so when it comes to something dangerous all they say is dame!! You cant to it!

>An international resort (asahidake is not a resort mind you) should accomodate international tourists and operate at international standards. Not a new or novel idea.

True, but for the Japanese, it is something different bc it falls out of the realm of "this is how it has always been done here" and they dont know what to do about that. They suck at setting precidents.

All I can say is that some places are making the effort, and others arent. It might not be coming fast enough, but that is bureacracy in this country, it moves like molasses.

Ive been posting bout mizu no sawa on here for the past 3-5 years in hopes of them opening it up, but I quit holding my breath. In the mean time other mountains in Japan are opening up, so at least we can see some progression party
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#291924 - Sat Nov 15 2008 05:04 PM Re: Niseko avalanches [Re: Creek Boy]
SerreChe Offline
SJ'er with 1000+ posts

Registered: Sun Dec 03 2000
Posts: 1694
Loc: Prev 6 37' 2'' E 44 53' 12''...
I'll set a precedent and wish you a happy bday CB.

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#291993 - Sun Nov 16 2008 12:47 PM Re: Niseko avalanches [Re: SerreChe]
Creek Boy Offline
SJ'er with 10000+ posts

Registered: Wed Jul 17 2002
Posts: 11239
Loc: is everything
lol Thanks!
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